Hi to All,
What constitutes a bounce. Is it?:
a) Up, Down, Up?
b) Down, Up, Down?
Or is it: Down, Up, or Up, Down?

Simply put: Is it 3 actions or 2?

I believe it has to be 3 actions. Maybe, you would say it's 2.

Phi.samways - with his fine analytical brain - maybe he would give the query his thoughts on this.

The answer must depend on whether we are talking about a single bounce or a series of bounces.

In everyday English we use the expression "bounce up and down" and not "bounce down and up" so I would say the Up half precedes the DOWN half, and I suspect Walter Laird would have thought similarly.

Note I have automatically divide the bounce into two halves, up and down, so that would imply that there are two actions. That is what we would see if we watched a series of bounces.

However, for a single bounce, we do not usually start from a down position, but from a neutral mid-way position, and we normally return to that neutral position. This gives us four phases of the bounce, let's call them rise to UP, fall to neutral, fall to DOWN, rise to neutral. Of course, we do not stay in the neutral position mid-bounce, so the middle two phases merge into one, fall to DOWN, hence the feeling of there being three actions.

I think that the bounce action is a single continuous cycle, so neither two nor three separate actions.

It seems natural to me to start any Samba movement by anticipating the first beat with an upward movement on the "&" half beat, with the rhythmic stress falling on the "down" beats, just as a the conductor of the band brings his baton down on the strong beats. For every downbeat, there is an upbeat first - watch a conductor. The "down" feel is most marked in volta movements, but they are there all the time.

I would say that we use muscular effort to check the downward movement of the body, our weight having landed on the steps falling on the beats, by allowing the knees to compress. They "catch" or check our downward movement, and the muscular tension so created is released in the following straightening action that reaches its high point on the "&" half-beat, before we "land" on the next beat ready to check our vertical travel again through a repeated knee compressions.

The "a" steps that most figures use, are taken at the mid-point of the up and down travel, which is one reason why they are with "half-weight".

That takes care of the Bounce action. I think we all agree that with 3/4 1/4 timing we are down on the whole beats. But what about the body tick. On a Volta not only do we have fall and rise , we also have a movement of the hips forward of our body and to the back. This is not a sideways motion, but front to back whist we are going sideways. Who said the Samba was easy, think again.

Did anyone suggest that Samba was easy?

Hi to All,

Serendipidy wrote:
/* That takes care of the Bounce action*/

Sorry to take away your lead-up to a body tick. The term 'body tick' has been used for many years but it has become popular again after a report of a competition in the Dance News, by Hazel Fletcher.

I would like to thank the members who have given their thoughts on what constitutes a bounce action. I know you will all be interested on the thoughts of the late Walter Laird on this. At a lecture, Walter stated that the bounce action was 3 actions. Please remember that it was not 'Iluve2dance' who said that but Walter.

Lots of times I've read on this message board about the wonderful dancing shown on DVD's by Slavic and Karina. In their 'Dancing Basics with Passion' series, it's worth studying again the pelvic and hip action on the samba basics and also the Travelling Voltas. You will see that although the body action is forward to start with there is a rotation of the hips to move into a back or side position. To just imply that the hips move forward and back is wrong.

I know two or three years ago I wrote that the Laird technique was not always what Walter wanted printed. All his writings had to go before the IDTA Latin technical committee. It was the committee that decided what should be in the book, not Walter. All the committee where interested in was keep it simple. Lots of times Walter felt dispair at some of the decisions the committee made.

Again I would like to remind members that not all the work came from Walter. When his latin book was first 'Revised' it was also with the help of the late Sydney Francis. In fact, Sydney's name was going to be on the front of the book, with Walter's, but Sydney was warned by the ISTD that they would be... Even though Sydney was 'a name' with the ISTD he heeded their warning.

lluv2dance. I'm not up on the politics. But weren't Wally Laird and Sydney Francis in two different Dance Societies.
Body tick . Being that we are moving sideways on a Volta it might become confusing. So lets do two very slow Voltas taking twice the amount of time. Which way is the Body Tick going. Remember how we are told it is as if somebody punched us in the stomach which causes us to withdraw it to our rear. But as I said the whole lot is going sideways at the same time.
Now we need to know on Samba Locks where there is no Samba Bounce. Is there a Body Tick.