I just noticed that the ISTD and Laird techniques differ on the point of closing as opposed to half-closing on the cha-cha-cha chasse (the simple sideways one). I also noticed the ISTD stipulate that the first step is a small step which is different from what I was taught - there is no mention of this in Laird.

So I just wondered if people have views on which is preferable and if anyone had insight with regards how (ie for what reasons) the technique has diverged.

Clarification.. do you mean the commencing step to Right, on 1 <.. or...the side step on 4 after the back break ? .

the american style will be different to some degree .

I'm talking about the side step on the count of 4 and the closed (or half-closed) on count of & (international style).

I think small is a relative term... i would never advocate stepping wider than my shldr at the best of times, and in this case probably less .

As to closing on chasses , partial would be my preference

Well it makes sense to have two small steps on count 4 and & because you achive much more musicality by accenting count 1 then.

The IDTA (or Laird technique) allows only one thing: half closing!

The ISTD allows both: half closing or closing.

Generally the Laird technique is different compared with the ISTD technique but only small details differ. The ISTD normally mentions several possibilities which include Walter Laird's technique.

This change seems to have come in as part of the latest update to the ISTD books when they moved from the single combined revised technique to the five separate books.

The older ISTD revised technique, the IDTA (Walter Laird) and the UKA (Ken Akrill) all use the same description.

IMHO the change was an attempt to correct the musical interpretation which had developed as a result of bad teaching habits at beginner level.

In an attempt to get pupils to 'break on 2' many teachers repeatedly call the step timing 2,3,4&1 putting a very heavy emphasis on the 2 to the extent of shouting. This has the effect of making the 1 count seem trivial with the result that the step also loses impact.

The last step of the chasse is on beat 1 of the bar which deserves more emphasis. Keeping the first two steps of the chasse small allows this musical emphasis to be given to the final step.
Given a small step on 2, the difference between closing and half closing on the & is less significant so either can be acceptable, though I personally prefer a partial closure.

I also prefer to give my beginners a different emphasis when counting to accent the 1. I usually count a bar as 1,2,3, cha-cha instead of 2,3,cha-cha-cha, still 'breaking on 2' of course.

Change in musical styles may also have had an influence. One of the earliest chachas poular in the UK was Joe Loss's Wheels which used 1,2,3&4. Later South American influences brought us 2,3,4&1 and the modern heavy disco sound is open to almost any interpretation.

thanks for the input.

i take the point about accented beat 1. but i always thought that the accenting is best accomodated by hip movement rather than by foot placement. from my perspective the larger step is merely an illusion of the hip movement ???

which brings me to another question. in laird technique, step 1 of the chasse to L has hips starting to move to the left. i always thought that this was a bit vague in that it tells you where the hips are heading not where they are. does it mean starting to move to the left relative to its position on the preceding step (ie to the R) but not yet having passed through a central position. Or does it imply that the hips have already passed the central position ?

I once had a teacher that told me there should be equivalent amounts of hip movement on each step of the chasse. I am now trying to reconcile this with the Laird technique. Putting aside the issue of where the hips are at the end of count 4, it seems to me the hips movement over the last step (count 1) is similar to the total hip movement over the first two steps (4 &). Perhaps (allowing for the beat values) it is more accurate to say that the speed of (hip) movement is constant throughout the chasse.

Any input much appreciated.

Social Dancer. Does what you say mean that Wheels isnt really suitable for cha-cha-cha.

Interested. Go straight to the source instead of going into all that philosophical stuff.
Google. Slavic and Karina Corkey Ballas. Just like that and see exactly how a Chasse in the Cha should be done.Look if you can at the angle of the hips. Also with the feet level and the heel off the floor of the closing foot. The knee will be in front of the body. Do you think he does the Chasse on a slight angle and not square. Lets hear some answeres or questions on any part so that we can check them out for ourselves.

Polished. Problem is I do not have Broadband so videos are a problem for me.I must convert soon. But, having said that, my question is more about the standardised techniques, rather than more individual interpretations and styles.

Interested. There is so much on youtube for the dancer in any style of dancing. Its absolutely incredible. I am told that untill just very recently the biggest changes were in Latin. Now it is in the Standard Style of International Ballroom that is changing.
To get back to the Cha and the Chasse.
According to the book the footwork for the man and lady is B flat B flat B flat.
LF to the side. RF half closes. LF to the side.
What I can see now is there is no B flat with the right foot.
Width of step. The knees do meet. And there is a turn of the body from left to right
All of this can be seen as clear as day.
If you do get Broad Band to save eating up your hours on what is called Streaming. Put your digital camers on video and film off the screen. Then load onto your computer the same way that you load any snaps you may have taken.It will go to your Pictures. Doing it this way is an added bonus. Not only can you watch them anytime without being on the net. You can also watch them in slow motion, or also you can move them along a fraction at a time. Good Luck
In our Public Libraries we can also watch the above for free.