I am new to ballroom, having only been at this since January of 2009. I began taking private lessons in American Smooth dances in June (prior to that time I just participating in group lessons, taking 8 week series of various dances to learn where I had the most interest). I would like to become a very skilled and competent social dancer in the smooth series; however, I am not currently thinking about doing competitive dancing. I have been taking the private lessons once a week and am making good progress, but in looking at the "bronze" syllabus I would need to learn a fair number of additional patterns in both Tango and Waltz to know everything up through Full Bronze. I guess my basis question is: how far does a "social" dance student normally go with learning the syllabus and/or is there any average amount of time I should expect to need to commit to continued private lessons. I do enjoy my lessons and feel a good rapport with my instructor; however, I have hesitated to ask him this question.

It truly is a personal, individual choice. What are your own goals and objectives as your dance(s) progress? is the question you should entertain and only you would know the answer Some dancers I know prefer specific syllabus figures rather than "all" the figures, others learn faster and dedicate a significant amount of their own time to practice (not competition but just plain hard work practice). Many instructors are open to dialog about your goals and it helps clarify for them what direction you would like to take. Private lessons, from my point of view, are great tools but along with the private lessons and your own social dancing as you've indicated comes lots of practice. Dance progress has so many variables - even when your not a competitor. But ultimately that is what dance is - a process with progress. Sit down with your teacher - share your thoughts and get input.

Thanks for your reply to my post. Yes, I probably should sit down and talk with my instructor - not sure why I haven't other than not wanting to appear "clueless". I had just started thinking that maybe some level of training was more or less reserved for competitive and/or pro dancers - probably silly. As far as dedicating my own time to practice, I certainly am doing a lot of that, within the limits of time available. I absolutely love it! I find myself even mentally reviewing dance patterns in my head as I drive to work! So I am pretty dedicated to it, and probably don't think in terms of striving to become a competitive dancer only because I am not sure my financial resources would allow the costs associated with costumes, entrance fees and so forth, and also because at the present time I do not have a partner. One other question I need to ask is whether I should be learning International Standard as well as American Smooth, since I'm not sure how many folks who ask me to dance socially will be doing Standard. All in all, I am very excited about ballroom dance and wish I had taken it up years ago.

Welcome to the beautiful addiction called ballroom dance. :)

I love it too. I find myself interested in the syllabus as a means of keeping myself honest and keep myself adding to what I know. I've no intention of competing for the simple fact that no way would my partner do it and I don't want another partner.

But I find the challenge is fun. I love the work, and my perfectionistic streak enjoys the constant striving for improvement.

I just love everything about ballroom.

I'm working on my sewing skills to be able to make my own dance clothing. At this time I make a simple skirt and wear whatever tops and this is nice for practice and going dancing, but not fancy. I hope to eventually work up to something really nice for going out to dance.

Go for whatever you like best in ballroom because it is ALL good!

Pose the idea of a coaching with your instructor for a dance that you love or a dance that you would like to get better in. You do not need to be a competitor to receive coaching. Which is an outside source that takes a look at you and your partner (pro or otherwise)and gives you insight as to what to work on and such. If your considering competition - it is pricey. lessons, coaching, clothing, etc etc. However, there are plenty of amateur functions, e.g., universities that run reasonable priced comps, usa dance chapters, or you may even think of doing a studio showcase dance. Newcomers are not expected nor encouraged at all - to wear costumes in competition. You can puruse competition web sites or simply go to the ndca web site and read the rule book on the sections that would apply to you. Dance has so many options, I compete in both American Smooth (my first discipline) and now Int. Std with a sprinkling of Rhythm or sometimes Latin. My real love is West Coast Swing which is extremely reasonable and much less cost - for competition or just plain enjoyment. I also have made my own costumes for competition - as I'm an advanced seamstress but there are ways to have a nice looking costume without the thousands spent on a designer dress. Take your time - ask your questions - work on your dancing. You'll find your way. OH - and just a word of warning - check out the threads on this web site about students who were asked to pay a ridiculous amount of money up front before lessons take place. It's just a good thing to know about - a pearl of wisdom. Enjoy your process and your progress.

If you are in America there isn't any real need to learn Standard and it might actually confuse your progress to try and learn both at the same time.

I dance Standard, I love standard but if you are looking just to social dancing it isn't going to really advance more than your general skill.

Mostly in the US people who are dancing Standard are doing so to compete. Not 100% of course but generally speaking.

Aloha from Hawaii,

We do more international style here than in some places due to a mixed population.
I have traveled on the mainland a bit though and it is my belief that most advanced level dancers anywhere know and love the International Style.

The American Style is best suited for beginners and floors clogged by dancers who can not keep moving along. It is good to know in case a leader is using it with you. It is also useful in a bar with a tiny floor. You probably know enough already for those occasions.

On the other hand, a good leader who knows the International style will probably not want to dance very often with a lady that only knows the American style. If you want the good dancers to ask you often, you should know some International. Those who claim it's only for competition do not know what they are talking about.

The major dance studios teach American style because it is easy to learn and their teachers do not have to be very well trained. They hope you will stay interested (keep paying) They know if you do stick around, you will also want to learn International eventually.

I also believe competitions are a huge waste of money. I only go to comps to see who is good. (and how good their students are.) (and buy some clothes)

Most people who compete are not very good and way too uptight to enjoy their dancing. Eyery one is worried about making a boo boo in front of someone who might notice it.

I do take my own lessons with very high level champions. The technique they focus on is essential to good dance skill. You need that for sure.

International style is not so different from American really. there are just a few step patterns we use that American does not. A Hockey Stick in Rumba & Cha Cha and, Whisk & Chsse from Promenade in Waltz are two important examples.

I suggest you learn some basic International steps. You will have a better chance to find a good partner even in a group class.
A good partner will help pay for lessons and dance with you for free.

I'm getting so much valuable advice in this forum! I am so glad I found it and started a thread, although I suppose by now I should be calling the thread something else. Oh well, whatever.

I am going to ask my instructor tomorrow about standard vs. American and see what he says. He already has taught me one pattern in waltz that is international standard, so we're not always sticking to smooth. But it's a good subject to bring up with him.

On to a slightly different topic: as a woman out there learning and dancing with many different people socially, now that I've been at this a few months I notice something that happens fairly often that I'd like feedback on how to handle. I often have classes or just dance socially with men who feel they are far superior dancers to me and want to give me lots of advice about things they feel I need to do differently. Yet when I ask my instructor about these issues he usually says I do not have the problem that the person has mentioned to me, and then I feel confused.

For example, a gentleman told me just tonight that sometimes I try to put my own energy into a dance and don't wait on the lead. Yet this same partner very frequently gives a very weak lead, or deviates from the normally accepted way of going through a pattern. And he is not somebody that I look at out there on the dance floor and think of as being a highly skilled dancer; rather, I tend to see him as somebody who has taken quite a few lessons but who doesn't have a lot of basic musicality or ability and frequently is behind the beat, misses steps, etc. So yes, sometimes when I dance with him I sometimes tend to compensate for the lack of a good lead if I know the pattern. He really notices this and has mentioned it several times. Yet just a couple of nights ago I danced a waltz with my instructor during the social dance and he complimented me on what a beautiful job I was doing following the lead, even when he purposely mixed things up a lot and threw in a couple of patterns I hadn't really done before. Naturally I am going to listen to what my instructor says, but I do find this habit certain male partners have of trying to coach other students to be irritating. Don't get me wrong; there are a few very advanced dancers that I feel FORTUNATE to get pointers or feedback from, usually they are top competitors in their chosen specialty and I know if they give me feedback I can rely on it to be accurate. But I get tired of guys who are no more skilled (or less so) than I am telling me that I need to do this or that (or conversely I should NOT do this or that) when they really don't know any better than me. I spent several private lessons in the beginning working with my instructor on my dance frame, only to have a man tell me during a group class that my dance frame had changed and he did not like it - this after I had spent many hours of practice to attain it. Is this common, and if so, what is the best way to handle it so as to keep good relationships with all participants but nip this kind of behavior in the bud?

LOl....Okay so such a question....mixed bag really.

I am glad your instructor is doing a good job with you. Remember though that just because he says it, doesn't make it so. Use your own judgement and recognize that he may be exactly right but I've learned a couple of wrong things from a dance instructor or two. I've also had some be encouraging when I wasn't exactly spot on and that led me to some false beliefs about my skill level.

Second...being an amiable person who has felt like kneeing a gentleman or two for their 'help' and advice...consider the source. If they look like they suck I'm sure they do. I actually use them as an opportunity. I have learned to be a much better dancer because I have learned to maintain my integrity while they are sucking. That way I can look good no matter who I'm dancing with and I can still follow them no matter how unfortunate their step choices might be.

I have also learned to be a good follow by dancing with lousy men. Actually its a fun trick I play with men who feel the dancing problem is because you just aren't following right. I tell them okay, you want me to follow? I'll follow and I do. I follow every painfully nasty miserable thing they do to the tiniest degree and it clarifies for them exactly where the problem lies. Trust me you don't have to tell them and it gives you good practice.

That's what I do and then I don't have to feel bad because I said something I'm going to regret :~}

Also, guys not on rhythm can be fun and it gives me a chance to syncopate and throw in my own flair so he can be off time and I can still be on and actually put some of my own personality in to the dance. It's social after all so it isn't a big deal.

"Belle" - I loved your answer to my last post! That gave me a lot to think about in line with how to make lemons out of lemonade lol! As far as my dance instructor being encouraging, he is; however, he also absolutely will point out in a heartbeat things he feels I am doing wrong, so I'm pretty confident that he isn't letting too much "slip". He can actually be pretty picky in some of his comments, and frequently gives me feedback about the fact that in certain smooth dance patterns the right side of my body tends to open up away from him a little too much, etc.

I agree that it probably can help you become a more competent dancer to practice with these guys that don't lead well. It's just that at the stage I'm currently at (7 months total since starting ballroom and only 3 months of private instruction under my belt) I'm not quite to the point where I can compensate as well as more experienced ladies when the man gives a poor lead. It's ironic to me that this same gentleman who repeatedly tells me I put too much of my own energy into the dance is notorious around our studio for doing just that himself. I realize the man is the leader; however, this particular guy seems to just enjoy doing things he personally considers "fun" or "cool" that do not belong in the pattern, and it is NOT because he has advanced skill level, but rather because he just wants to do his own thing.

At any rate, I have my weekly private lesson today and plan to talk to my instructor about these issues and also about learning standard patterns.