Hello Everyone,

I have the feeling that I am about to ask a question that will bring out some passionate responses, but that is better than being curious and not having the curiosity satisfied. (I am not purposefully trying to pick a fight with the ladies. I am looking to learn and if needed, be set straight.) This will be blunt. Sorry. Who bears the greatest responsibility for keeping their chest pointed / oriented toward their partner's chest? The man or the lady? When moving forward LOD, for example, I try to keep my chest pointed in the direction of the line of movement. When in PP, I try to rotate my 47 year old shoulders in line with my nose / face / eyes which are pointed where I am going (and yes, feet aligned properly, too). But sometimes, I get reprimanded for not keeping my chest aligned with my instructor's chest, and I wonder . . .. I want to do my part correctly and I am not trying to get out of doing anything that I should be doing and doing well, but with this, what is the best practice? Could this be a frame issue. Right now, the female instructor brain and the male student brain are not translating something. I need some help.

Had a little of the same trouble. It usually meant I was transferring weight too quickly and not giving my partner time to get in the right place for promenade position (depending on what step we were doing to precede it -- off an open telemark, for example, in international style, I wasn't keeping weight on left foot long enough to allow partner to heel turn into position). It really had less to do with the chest orientation and keeping frame than it did with what was causing the trouble -- not giving the partner time to get where she needed to be. So, from reading your question, I am guessing or assuming, really, that you are maybe a little out in front of your partner in promenade, and your instructor mentions it as an alignment issue. Watch the promenade videos on this site, and compare to what you are doing. Your answer probably lies in there somewhere. I have my chest at a bit of an angle, rather than directly pointing down LOD, so it is somewhat in alignment of same angle with partner. On a whisk to chasse, etc., I believe my chest points more directly down LOD, but I'd have to have someone else confirm that. More experienced instructors on this post will be able to provide some insight as well. I don't know what your skill level is, but a common problem for many is simply "breaking down" a little bit when moving into promenade position, even if it is the slightest drooping of the shoulders, or letting your behind stick out a little more than it should.

I agree with dheun.

The responsibility belongs to both partners. Its really very hard and it has a lot to do with having the right amount of movement in your feet so it is even possible.

I have an excellent instructor so I only worry about me, and usually I'm the problem. Occassionally he will do something and say immediately that it was his fault. If you are having trouble do what he did for us, tie the two of you together, he used the sleeves of his jacket, and it gives your brain a whole different kinesthetic understanding.

This is one of those subtle hard things. You'll get it.

Thank you. I can visualize what you have described, Dheun. Belle, I appreciate your input, too. Thank you. I'm a bit OCD, so I'll get working on it.

Both partners have a duty to accomodate each other in their body rotation.

Generally you should not have your shoulders oriented square to the direction of travel, except for one instant in the course of cbm steps when you rotate from having one side in advance to having the other in advance.

Continued movement square to the feet just isnt very practical for two bodies, so one of the key evolutions from oversimplified introductory figures to the real building block figures is learning how most movements are on one diagonal of the body or the other, or contain the switch between the two.

You should probably trust your teacher on this - many are too lax, but very few are too strict in what they demand. If you have doubts, see if your teacher can borrow a male collegue for a minute to demonstrate what she wants in the context of two bodies - this is a typical courtesy between teachers and happens many times a day.

Thanks, Anymouse. My OP positioning is fairly good and getting better, but even then, the same issue arises some. But thanks, in part, to all of you, I'll learn and improve. I am very fortunate to have the teacher I have. She's tough on me, and I ask her to be. I am just a very inquisitive individual who seeks knowledge from different sources on various things. I am grateful for this forum. I live in a part of the US where I would have to drive 4 hours to find a male instructor of the same caliber as my teacher for that demostration, though. Yah, we have plenty of "professional," male instructors, but . . .. Self-proclomation and reality are not always the same.

Anonymous. I would agree with your writting on the 3/21/2010 when you explained that going from, for instance, a left side leading to a right side leading as in a Feather Step into a Three Step, there is a point in time where we are in a neutral position, and is usually counted as an and. which is often called a balance point. I think I would have explained that usually at that point we have lowered to the floor. I beleive when learning it is a must to first learn a Feather Step followed by a Three Step with the above action being taught and thoroughly explained. When we give it some thought there are very few steps which are taken square . A Cross Chasse springs to mind I suppose the first two steps of a Whisk might be another.
I was impressed with the teaching of Slavik when he explained that there are a million different positions of the body when going from one step to another, that is if the distance is divided into millionths. We actually travel through every one of them. Interesting isn't it.