seeking info about how to get the actual foot steps used in a dance. example after a dance class or watching a video on dance the dance materials would include a step outline of the class. When practing at home you could review these steps. Most people forget the steps (or some of the steps) after the class. My class mates would love to have a set of steps but the instructor don't want to supply them. I think they are fearfull of losing customers. They could charge extra and only issue the steps covered in the lesson.

Also, some company could make some bucks issuing just the foot prints. I do have a book that has some foot printss but not all - they use a verbal outline of the steps.

Eli

I have never seen them. As mentioned in the other forum topic they are available in books as an illustrated chart with directions.

So I will tell you why I don't think it would make alot of sense to print these, though they used to do it.

Ballroom steps, are often deceptively simple if you look at the foot pattern, but when you start looking at weight transfers and that sort of thing it gets complicated beyond the ability to walk on predetermined footprints. I know a lot of steps that have foot placements that are fewer than the actual times you count the movement (weight change). I could see it confusing the tar out of people as they tried to learn some of the more control intensive steps.

Many latin dances don't travel very much so your footprints aren't going to be clear but rather stacked one on top of the other until what you have is a blob of mess that is difficult to follow...(how can step three be in the same place as step one?)

Steps flow into each other and sometimes you need one step to set up the next step and footprints can't accomodate that very well without teaching you to dance as if you were in a rut and confuse your understanding of how a dance should or could be put together.

My legs and your legs aren't the same and so it's going to teach people to dance the wrong length of footstep and that can ruin flow and artistry. I could just see this making people so mechanical, worse than the people who can't put down their foot until they've said the number so that dancing becomes a disconnected series of dot-to-dot.

I would think on top of that it's going to train you to use your feet wrong. Many movements in ballroom are flowing and require feet to brush and weight transfers and movements to happen between foot placements and I don't think footprints could accomodate that.

Also, let's say you get it all worked out and someone does figure out how to make it work...who has a big enough room in their house to even think of accomadating a Viennese Waltz layout etc.?

Someone does have these on the computer on a grid. I saw it years ago so if you are determined it is out there if you don't have to have it printed. I would just suggest it is probably going to hurt way more than it helps.

Do you not think for one N.Y. second, that if it was a viable proposition, it would not already be out there ? .

I've never thought them very useful. They only appeal to those whose learning style relies heavily on the visual, and as dancers we are much more concerned with body movement than where that leads us to place our feet. For anything except the simplest figures, the charts become hopelessly complicated and difficult to follow, and they don't begin to illustrate the interaction of two bodies dancing as one couple.

I have found that the footstep patterns, as diagramed in Alex Moore's book for example, aided me in understanding a given figure. They also helped me to better conceptualize alignments, and what I am supposed to be trying to do. However, they don't work out that way most of the time on the dance floor. But I am now begining to grasp what Telemark commented on related to the body movements of a couple. I must confess, that I am a visual learner and without the myriad of visual aides, I might not have come to where I am now. I have a long way to go, but I made greater progress with the assistance of charts to some, minor degree. I must add that I do not rely on them or the other aides, but I try to incorporate the information they provide into the whole of the learning process. It has helped me learn more of what I don't know, and I am able to ask more intelligent questions from those of you who are kind enough to help. Now, there are times when I know me and my partner are headed one way, we are blocked by a couple or a piece of furniture, and I am starting to know what how to move next to get where I want to be. And that's satisfying.

As a teacher of ballroom dancing, I find books, instructions and videos extremely helpful, but I have done years of training to be able to comprehend what the books are telling me, and still sometimes have difficulty without further instruction. I agree instructions and foot patterns can be easily misunderstood, and our perceptions are not always the same when watching a video. It's fantastic that the Will to do homework is there, but in reality, sometimes this is only helpful to a degree. Working with an instructor can, in the long run, be much more productive, because anothers trained eyes can see what needs to be corrected.

I give out instruction sheets to my students to help them with their homework, but only to those who pay for private lessons. The others are offered the printout sheets but I have not found any to date have purchased the sheets for the $15 Aust. fee. There is considerable work involved in writing a routine, timing, etc. This is a service which could be offered. However, I don't believe most of my students use the sheets to any degree. They are only just beginning to comprehend them at Silver Level. I find it is impossible to write something simple and comprehensive for most dances. Most teachers don't have the time to do that kind of homework and many unpaid hours can be spent on such activities. From a teaching perspective, it helps me to write the routines and I find I learn more myself. I find if I write notes during or immediately after my dance instruction lessons, that helps. I also write simple ques or instructions on the basic dances during the lesson time if my students request. Your teacher may assist on that basis. That way you are paying for the time they take to do the writing. Some will refuse, basicly because our living depends on dance instruction. Personally the more people learn, the more they want to learn is my theory, and so I help in any way I can, but we have to be careful, because sometimes the printout scares away our customers. It makes learning the dances feel quite complicated and daunting. Some of us love a challenge. Others just like to move to music. The secret to really good dancing (for most of us, very few just dance naturally in our style of dancing anyway) is in learning the technique if you have the dedication. That requires learning all the homework, and I believe if you have enough will to do that, thats great. Find a teacher willing to help more, be willing to pay for their extra time and effort, and All the best with your dancing.

I, like a couple more of the Profs and Amat on this site. , grew up in dance, when there was no Vid , DVDs etc,, and yet, in that time period, it produced pretty much ALL the people that we base our dancing, and technique, upon.It also produced some of the greatest dancers, who ever put a foot on the floor.

How did this happen ?.. we danced 3..4.. .5 times a week , or more .. and ,practice, study ,and classes .

The point is.. Vids, footsteps printed etc. are merely tools ,but the time invested ON the floor,and good solid instruction , is the ultimate key to success .

Terence, your point is well taken, and I wish I had access to a dance environment where I could dance more with other dancers who aspire more than mediocrity. I do study a lot, and thank goodness for the videos and books. (I use them as study guides, and my teacher, who is competent, guides me.) I live in Northwest Arkansas, USA, and there aren't many people at all who are interested in going beyond social dancing, if they even know such levels exist. Our area is large enough and metropolitan enough to support a better dance scene, but nobody is providing it. There aren't many "professional" teachers who can or even bother to teach anything above the bronze level or "cash for showcases." The net result of this is that there are very few people with whom to practice with, and I can't afford to pay my instructor to be my practice partner. The studios are run poorly. We hear the same play lists over and over again until you begin to hate songs you used to like. I used to live near San Franciso, CA, and I would be in a ballroom haven if I were still there. I yearn for the experiences of your past, but I have to seek some it vicariously through various media. Even here, on this web site, I learn a lot from people such as yourself. You have improved my dancing, and I am grateful to you for that. But, after reading your words, I practiced and contiinue to do so. You are so correct about the need for quality time om the dance floor, but some of us need the various media to make up for what we lack. Thanks to all of you who help those of us who seek your knowledge.

I coached in L.Rock many yrs ago.. there was a fairly active dance scene at that time ( 1983/4? ).

have done a lot of work in very small provincial towns,and always found that they are never as jaded, as is often the case in some larger cities : and yes, it is difficult to sustain a decent level of dance, in those circumstances.

The metro areas tend to attract the " dancers " and high profile teachers( its the income ) .

Little Rock still has a fairly active dance scene. The Fayetteville area is almost as big, now. We are lucky to have two indepentant, female instructors who have many years of competition and professional instruction experience. They are similar in comparison to many instructors in the larger cities, but the ones operating the various studios are, sadly, not catering to the masses who want "real" ballroom. (The interest is here. The avenues to explore it credibly, aren't.) If it weren't for our two angels, the few who really want to learn wouldn't get past a blend of bronze techniques for social dancing mixed with cash sucking, showcase choreography. The results are scary: People with potential often slide backwards.