Calling the techies,
I've noticed many times when reading the timing of a Samba figure which uses the rhythm of '1 a 2' that the 'a' is almost always placed near the '2' as: '1 a2'. But I understand that this timing is 3/4, 1/4, 1. The 1/4 beat being part of the 1st beat(3/4). So why doesn't the 1/4 beat rest next to the '1' as: '1a 2'. My tutor said I should just accept it; but I can't!

I would prefer to keep each element separate, and use 1 a 2 but it may help to see why the "a" appears near the 2 if you draw a time-line of the 3/4 1/4 1 periods. Now put a mark under the beginning of each element and you will notice that the "a" is nearer the 1 (beat 2) than the 3/4 (beat 1).

HTH

Think of every beat of music as being a section of time, rather than a point in time. Each beat consists of the entire length of time from the moment the beat begins right up until the moment the next beat begins. For example, if each beat lasts 1 second (4/4 time at 60 bpm), then the first beat consists of the entire length of time from 1:1:000 to 1:1:999. Beat two doesn't begin until 1:2:000.

When we speak of a note "belonging" to a particular beat, what we mean to say is that it falls within the range of time we define as that beat. Therefore, if you have a series of 4 sixteenth notes "1 e and a", they all "belong" to beat one, because they all fall within its range of time: 1:1:000, 1:1:250, 1:1:500, and 1:1:750.

The last of the four sixteenth notes may be very close to the next beat, and your ear may even perceive it as being "paired up" with the following note, but it is not actually IN the second beat. It is still within the scope of the first beat.

Hope this helps clear it up for you.

Regards,
Jonathan Atkinson
www.ballroomdancers.com

Simple. It's done so that when you write it out, it looks visually similar to the way the timing works and sounds. The basic samba rhythm is 3/4, 1/4, 1 and the first two steps are part of one beat. But the second step is much closer to the third step than the first, so it gets written closer to the 2 than the 1. As Jonathan explained, beats really have lengths in time and aren't just points in time. Another way to look at it is to break down the beats in quarters, like this: 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a. That's how I was taught to count it as a musician. Now just drop all the beats that aren't steps and you get: 1 a2 3 a4. Most people won't bother to put two spaces in between like I just did, but the general idea is the same. It's supposed to look like it sounds. Does this help?

Thanks for the help, Jonathan and Dronak. I can see now how the quarter beat is nearer the start of the second beat than the first.



Beat One Beat Two
1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4
--------------- ---------------
3/4 1/4 1
1 2 3

Made a small chart but the format didn't print correctly. But I now understand.

We all know , or should do, that in two bars of Voltas the count is 3/4, 1/4. 3/4, 1/4. 3/4, 1/4. 1. But to count this is too much of a mouthfull. So we count 1 and 2 and 3 and so on. If you are not carefull you will be dancing 1/2 1/2 1/2. At the completion of the two bars you may find that there is 1/2 left over, Changing to the next figure or the cross over to more Voltas you will be inclined to use that 1/2 beat. That of course is not correct, never was or ever will be. This is why the Samba is the most technical of all the dances, and by far the the hardest to understand, especially with its changing rhythms. Apply the same technic to a Boto Fogo, you will soon see the differences if it is not counted correctly. Incidently I am a disciple of Wally Laird , would not own any other book. Happy Counting Guys.

Hi Don,
When Walter Laird had his Latin technique book first published in 1964, he referred to the timing of a 1/4 beat as ‘and', just as you have done. (The Volta Timing) It was only when he accepted a lecture in Leeds, Yorkshire, UK. that he was questioned by the late, Jack Dixon, of Bradford, Yorkshire, UK - Jack had been the number one man for Latin with the old International Dance Masters' Association. (IDMA) Walter was the number one man for the Dance Teachers' Association (DTA) and after the amalgamation of the two societies to become the International Dance Teachers' Association (IDTA) then Walter's work was preferred to Jack's. During his lecture Walter was interrupted by Jack who pointed out to Walter that the word ‘and' was being used for a ½ beat as well as a 1/4 beat. Also the word ‘and' takes too long to enunciate and the pupil is not made aware of the quick change of weight required when executing movements requiring a 1/4 beat. Jack therefore suggested a word that is phonetically shorter to be used exclusively for all 1/4 beat movements. Jack also suggested that the best method of achieving this is to make use of the ‘a' (pronounced ‘ah' or ‘er') for timing all 1/4 beat movements, irrespective of whether the time signature is 2/4 or 4/4. In the reprints of the Laird book, Walter added a new chapter to his book called,'A Note On Timing.' and listed the suggestions made by Jack - but no credit given. When Walter returned to Leeds to give another lecture, later in the year, he walked onto the floor and slowly turned around viewing the audience and said, ‘ Is Jack here?'.

I am confused about the time-line concept in general.
Let's draw a time-line from left to right, with equal intervals to represent the consecutive beats.

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 <-Musical count
........................

When we say beat 1, do we refer to the time duration from 0 to 1 on the time-line ? If so, then that duration represents 1 full beat
from standing still to the 1st beat is counted.
Using the example of "1 a 2",
would the time-line look this ?

0 1 2 3 4 5 6
........................
1a 2 <--------------Samba count

Can someone enlighten me ?
Can you also give an example of foxtrot steps in time-line ?

Thanks.

Hi Beginner:

I hope you are enjoying your new hobby.

Rather than having a zero "0" on your timeline, think of the music in beat patterns that repeat, because once you start dancing there will be no "standing still" until the song is ended. So think of a samba simple beat time line as 12121212 or 12341234

The samba uses partial bits of the whole counts as stated in the previous posts.

It might help to show the beats in a timeline vertically rather than horizontally.

If we divide one beat into 4 equal "quarters" then 1 a2 3 a4 becomes

1--a
2---
3--a
4---
1--a
2---
3--a
4---

1 is 3 quarters of the beat 1
a is the last quarter of the beat 1
2 is the whole beat
3 is 3 quarters of the beat 3
a is the last quarter of the beat 3
4 is the whole beat

When starting to dance any dance, we do not start from a standing still position, but instead compress into a standing leg, ready to propel ourselves onto the free foot on the first beat. This is why instructors count down the music or the beat ("5678" or "56 ready and") so that the dancer knows when to compress in advance of the first "step" on 1. So in Samba, listening to the music we would be compressing on 4 to propel us into the 1 a2 3 a4 rythym. If a teacher was counting "56 ready and", on "and" we would be compressing on one foot/leg to move us into the first step on the other foot on 1. As we continue to dance this compression happens automatically in the step pattern.

Foxtrot is different. While Samba takes more than one step in one beat, the foxtrot extends a step over two beats. The discussion of timelines for Foxtrot could get very involved and technical. It would be interesting to see a discussion on the timeline for a continuity foxtrot change step. Any takers?