I was just reading an article on lead/follow and the following statement was made, which i found rather interesting.

" On the importance of dancing with beginners:
You learn how to dance better by dancing with more experienced partners. But you learn how to lead/follow better by dancing with less experienced partners. Your skills are put much more to the test dancing with a beginner than with an experienced dancer. It is easy to lead/follow a great dancer. All your weaknesses as a leader/follower show up with beginners. Dance with them and ask yourself why each incorrectly led/followed figure didn't work and when you figure it out, work on incorporating the fixes into all your dancing! "

Anyone agree or disagree with this statement ?

(If anyone is interested in reading the rather lengthy article it is posted at
dancers-archive.com/rec-arts-dance/topics/lead-follow-discussion.txt)

Hmmm...

My opinion.
In general....

A less experience follow will learn how to dance better, to a certain extent, by dancing with a more experienced leader. To an extent only, because at higher levels of dance, the reaction time for changes in moves is sometimes too fast for a beginning dancer to pick up. Also, the changes in frame and timing can confuse a beginning follow. So for instance, a beginner follow would never be expected to dance gold level figures with an experienced lead and get them all, but she could probably follow some silver level patterns as long as any timing changes don't fluster her.

A less experienced leader dancing with a more experienced follow CAN pick up the lead faster because the follow will respond to a lead, even a soft lead, faster than her beginner counterpart. He may be frustrated however, when he tries to give the same clues to a beginner dancer who is still having timing, balance, connection issues.

Dancing with less experienced dancers won't always improve lead/follow capabilites, but it can refine what is "leadable". This will vary depending more on the fitness and balance level of the less experienced dancer than on their dance capabilities.

A follow that has good balance and is fairly flexible will be far more able to pick up leads than someone not so balanced or flexible. The leader learns what basic moves are leadable in "all" situations and what is leadable when the partner is flexible.

An experienced follower practicing her following skills with less experienced leader CAN often benefit because the leads are often times behind or ahead of the expected lead point, so practicing not to anticipate or rush a step is good. She must also deal with leads that may be too strong or too weak. Dancing to these abnormal leads will keep her from anticipating moves, (she may dance a non standard movement if that is what is lead) and she will appreciate better what a good lead is when she gets it.

I would qualify this by saying that the difference in level between lesser and more qualified dancers probably shoudn't be that great. To get the most benefit on both sides, they should be slightly better or worse than the other partner. Then they are not working on technique and skills too far removed from each other.

I can only give my opinion based on my own experience. I am what you would call an "inexperienced follower" and I have danced with both leaders around the same level as me, below me and far far above me.

I have found it's always easier to follow the experienced leaders, even when they try lead you into something new. Although their lead is usually more subtle, it's also more definate. Inexperienced leaders will often hestitate or change their mind, or even lead something they didn't intend to as they haven't learnt it yet.

The exception to this rule is when the more experienced person is a competition dancer rather than a social dancer - their lead *can be* (not always) more difficult to follow, as their own partner is used to their possibly obscure leads.

Well, at the risk of sounding elitist, I find the only thing I really learn from dancing with a lower-level leader is patience. Honestly, I'm not suggesting that I can follow everything someone above me throws my way, but at my level (silver), I wouldn't be able to point out leading errors (unless very obvious) to a leader.

unless we are talking about 'followers' who are interested in technique, then no, dancing with a lower level dancer gives no help for the more experienced dancer. Especially in a social environment, the follower is usually not receptive to anything except compliments.

In a real practice situation, unless the follower is near the same level, 'dumbing down' to a lower level works for about 5 minutes - then you feel your frame and movement degrade. Nope, not a good idea.

Then, you have the 'I follow anything' ladies (who of course can't, but don't know that) who are ready to critique you with 'I have no problem doing this with (insert social dancer's name here)'.

the clue here is the posting that talked about 'obscure leads' from a competitive dancer. usually a post from a social dancer implying 'obscurity' shows lack of knowledge of the follower, not the leader (after all, the leads are not really obscure - they are described in great detail in books that were originally written 80 years ago, and are used as teaching 'bibles' worldwide) and usually anything outside a basic action is w-a-a-a-y too hard for a non-technique taught follower.

thanks to all for your opinions. I am sure that lots more can be discussed on this topic.

Dancing with a beginner in Modern can make a person a bit heavy handed, which might be necessary in this case. I was suprised to be told by a former British Rising Stars winner that the contact between partners is very light.His example was, he held up his hand, and asked me to touch his fingers with mine. I had to back off untill they were barely touching. The pressure was less than about 2 out of 10. It only makes sense that if we hold like a vice, that is what it will look like.
Happy Dancing

The "2 out of 10" is what the lead feels like when I have had a teacher demo with me. My dearly beloved partner holds at about 12 out of 10 and a bit more if he is concentrating or nervous. I actually started to lose feeling in my right hand once But we are only 2 years into dancing, our teacher is working with him and we both have a lot to learn so I am sure it will evolve. Needless to say, I am not one of those follows who attempts to lead....

Contrastingly, I've had a former British modern champion insist on a fairly firm (secure) grip in the left hand - he just didn't advocate using it to push the lady around.

I think there can be a bit of benefit now and then for a competition leader to do a few minutes with an intermediate, or at least someone less able to compensate than his usual partner is. I wouldn't want to get thoroughly retuned to leading beginners, but a little bit now and then helps keep all the skills up and can point out otherwise overlooked flaws.

As far as the left hand goes (right hand for us women), I have had my instructors tell me it needs to be firm but light. One person mentioned thinking of an egg being in the palm of the hands. You have to keep the hands together so that egg doesn't fall, but not too firm so as not to crush the egg. I have found that it works. And I tend to hold tighter or firmer, as mentioned by a previous post, when concentrating or nervous. Also, when my balance isn't good.
I am only a little over a year into ballroom dancing so I can't really say much as for the lead and follow. I am still very much a beginner, though I have improved since starting a year ago. I do find it easier to dance with instructors, higher level dancers, or my partner. I am used to my partner which is why it is easy to dance with him. I notice when I dance with others and they go into the same move that sometimes I misinterpret what they are leading me into cause their leads are different in technique.
Again, we only do the dancing for social purposes, and are not competing or anything. We both want to get better though. :)