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ballroom
Posted by Delightful D
5/2/2004  8:27:00 PM
I am currently taking lessons from one studio but classes are very expensive.So,I went to another studio and applied for their training class,thinking then,I could learn up to the bronze level free of charge in exchange for teaching.I guess that I am just feeling guilty now.I really like my instructor at the first studio and I have been asked to showcase later in the year.The problem is that I cannot afford travel,lodging expenses etc.necessary for competitions and being employed by a studio would eliminate this.What are the potential repercussions of such a decision?
Re: ballroom
Posted by Sarcastic Smoothie
5/2/2004  9:30:00 PM
Well, let's see - ripping people off and making enemies doesn't do your reputation in town any particular good, but it may not mean the end of your local dance opportunities. Presumably you had to a sign a contract for the teacher training, so you may owe them quite a bit of money if you break it.

At the end of basic teacher training you will still only have rudimentry competence as a dancer. But once you work as a pro, you would not then be able to later compete as an amateur without applying for and being granted a reinstatement of amatuer status.
You would need tons of training before you would realistically be able to compete in pro divisions. So by training as a junior teacher you are basically precluding any competition possibilities in the near term.

Showcases can be fun, but are mostly a way to get students to shell out a lot of money in fees, and lessons dedicated to material that is often too specialized to use for much else.

Competitions don't have to be all that expensive if you pick local ones and dance with another student rather than your teacher.
Re: ballroom
Posted by Laura
5/2/2004  9:42:00 PM
If you become an instructor you will lose your amateur status, and that means that if you ever want to compete you'll be stuck in a very difficult position (unless you compete with your own students in Professional/Amateur events). The barriers for entry into the professional events are quite high: these are the super serious people for whom ballroom is their entire life -- they are amazingly trained, have decades of experience, have the right body type, and are incredibly fit. If you think you ever would like to compete, don't do anything now that will make you a pro.

Conversely, it is very possible to start dancing as an adult and compete in amateur events as a hobby. There are all sorts of competitions at all levels, and they are EXTREMELY inexpensive to compete in. An amateur competion -- where you dance with an amateur partner -- might only cost as little as $20 per person for all the events you can dance in. One of the most expensive amateur competitions I know of is about $300 per couple and that includes a weekend pass to the competition, your entries, workshops, and some social dance parties.

By the way, if you are teaching anywhere then you aren't supposed to be enter as the student-amateur part of a Pro/Am couple. So, you wouldn't be able to dance with your teacher anyway if you started teaching at this other studio.

I think one thing you might try is to start taking classes at a studio that encourages its students to pair up into amateur partnerships. Such studios DO exist, a number of the "independent" studios are this way, offering dancesport classes where people pair up during class and then enter local competitions.

Another thing to try, if you want to stay in the Pro/Am world, is to shop around and see what different studios have to offer and what their pricing schemes are. Try to find a studio that does not make you sign any contracts or make you book more lessons than you want to in advance. The place I've been taking lessons to for years has no contracts and it's not really possible to buy more than 10 lessons in advance. We have some great dancers at our studio, including some Europeans who were the National Champions in their home countries, and some US Rising Star winners. These people charge about $70 per lesson...some a couple of bucks more, and some a couple of bucks less.

Different teachers and studios also charge for competitions differently. A showcase might cost $1500, but that includes 10 lessons (not with one of the champions I mentioned above, though), personal hair and makeup, payment for your teachers time, a professionally produced video, a cast party, and a ticket for you to bring a guest. I don't know how that compares to what you are being asked to pay, but I threw the numbers out there so you could see them.

Some studios have various fees etc that they charge students for going to competitions with their teachers, others do not. I take from an independent teacher at an independent studio, and I pay him a reasonable per-dance fee for each dance we enter at a competition, plus our entry fees, plus my share of his admission tickets (split between all his students there) plus my share of his hotel and airfare (also split between all his students there). I've gone to some of the biggest Pro/Am competitions in the US and only spent between about $1500-$2000 for everything because I book my own hotels and airfare, split my teachers' expenses three or four ways, and usually enter 10 events plus the scholarship event for my level. Which brings me to another point: you can save money by dancing in fewer events. If your studio tells you that you MUST do a certain number of entries tell them no. I used to dance at a franchise studio that would say to me "here is your package cost, it includes X entries and Y hotel nights" and so on. Every time they'd do this I'd say "No, I'm not spending that much money. If you want me to go to this competition I will do only Z entries and will stay at my cousin's house nearby." They'd always say to me "well, let me see if I can get special permission for you to do this a la carte" and *invariably* they'd come back to me and say "okay, yes, you can do it so long as you also buy this dinner banquet ticket." See, they'd rather have SOME of my money than NONE of it, so don't let them guilt you or push you around. It's your money, it's your dancing, become an informed consumer and take care of yourself!

Where are you located? People here might be able to suggest some studios or teachers to try out.
Re: ballroom
Posted by anonymous
5/3/2004  7:36:00 AM
As you can see from Laura's post, 'ballroom' dancing is taught in many guises, but it is most easily found as a moneymaking vehicle to get 'proam' students who do not see the real aspects of dance study - real aspects which include time (put in by the student) energy (it takes more than shuffling around at a social to learn, or traveling to the nearest studio) and money (coaches who have to dance with a beginner charge beaucoup $$$s mainly because it is tiring and takes away from their real work - competivie dance).

Dance instruction is not like McDonalds - one right near you, offereing the same as the others. You'll find that you may have to travel a good distance for good instruction. Ditto your partner (you WILL have a partner, won't you - this is a partnership... ands someone you pay by the minute to 'dance' with in NO WAY is your partner) and so on.

As you now realize, as an 'instructor' at the level you are at (we call them 6 week wonders) you have no abilities as a dancer beyond what you have been shown - patterns and sales techniques. In exchange for this you are now a 'pro'... but you didn't go to the class the week they told you how to sell showcases and special performances to your students. Laura's post tells you how that works. However, in no way are you able to 'go back' to the amateur world (like you were transferring betwween adult ed classes). As soon as a student finds out that you are a techer, they'll out you, for no other reason than the satisfaction of turning in a sneak. Most likely, it'll happen during the comp.
Re: ballroom
Posted by Delightful D
5/3/2004  1:08:00 PM
Thank you to all for the advice.I am located in Charlotte,N.C.I wish that i had done a little research before going to any studio or signing any contracts.I certainly dont want want to rip anyone off,like i feel that i have been{by a franchise}I have located an independent studio which seems reasonable.In fact,i find that i could have attended a group class every day of the week and take a weekly private for a little over $ 200/mo.Even so plan to take an intro class.What else should i look forin terms of teacher experience/programs Etc.?
Re: ballroom
Posted by Laura
5/3/2004  1:29:00 PM
There are a couple of major certification bodies that test and certify professional ballroom dance teachers. In the US, the major ones are the USISTD (US branch of the Imperial Society of Teachers of Dance, a British group) and the US Terpsichore Society (but I'm not sure if it still exists). The examinations for these tests are pretty rigorous: there's a written part, an oral part, a dance demonstration part where the teacher must both lead and follow, and a part where the person being examined basically teaches a lesson to the examiner. Now, these tests aren't the ultimate factor in determining who is a good dancer and teacher and who isn't, but it is some kind of start. So see if your prospective teacher has taken the ISTD and/or Terpsichore exams. One studio I know is very proud that their teacher have passed their tests, and they hang the teacher's USISTD certificates on the wall for all to see.

Another think to look for is if your prospective teacher has ever competed as a pro with another pro partner. Pro competition is very demanding, even to the lowest-level pros, so even if the teacher didn't get very far competing as pro they still had to learn a lot and experience a lot to get where they did.

But competing as a pro also isn't a be all/end all determinant. There's some good teachers out there who haven't competed as pros. So another thing to look at is how their other students do. Dance with their students at social parties, and see if you like how they dance or not. Watch them at competitions, and see what you think of their dancing and also how they place. See if the teacher has any group classes, and take them before you start booking privates. This will give you a chance to get a taste of how the person teaches, and also to see how other students respond to what is being taught.

Some other things to look at is if your teacher teaches couples as well as single students. It's nice to work with someone who also teaches amateur couples. That way, you might get some help looking for a partner and you'll be able to use your teacher as a coach later on if you decide to do some amateur competition.

Also, look at what else your teacher does in the dance world. Does he or she stay active, taking lessons of their own? Do they participate in any dance groups, or do shows around town, or judge at competitions? It's best to work with someone who stays in contact with refinements and changes in technique, since it is always evolvoing.
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